First panel of the 15th Anniversary Edition of the Istanbul International Arts & Culture Festival — IST.FESTIVAL, kicked off with a conversation between Jeff Koons and Timothée Verrecchia, where the two reflected on how everyday objects can be transformed into extraordinary works of art, from mirrored balloons to monumental icons. They discussed how notions of originality and authenticity evolve in an era shaped by AI and digital reproduction, and how art continues to assert its presence in the real.
Timothée Verrecchia Hello, Jeff.
Jeff Koons Hello, Timothée.
Timothée Verrecchia Thank you, Demet and Alphan, for having us. It’s wonderful to be back in Istanbul. We’re really happy to kick this off. So, Jeff, thank you for joining us, and thank you for meeting me in Istanbul with your lovely wife, Justine. One thing we were discussing this morning was how amazed we were and overwhelmed we were by the energy of Istanbul, and one thing that you and I have discussed over some of our travels and encounters in different parts of the world is: What’s required to stay curious? And I’ve always been in awe of your curiosity, your energy, and your constant appetite for new things, new cultures, of course, history, and places. And I’d love to hear it from you, for you to explain to us how you stay in this kind of what seems to constant state of wonder.
“I try to stay open to everything. And I just want to state here, being in this environment and kicking off the festival, as an artist, I think what pulled me to the art world was being able to be part of a group—the idea, the avant-garde.”
Jeff Koons Timothée, I try to stay open to everything. And I just wanna state here, being in this environment and kicking off the festival, as an artist, I think what pulled me to the art world was to be able to be part of a group, the idea, the avant-garde. And so to be here in this intimate environment with everybody. I mean, this is what I’ve always wanted, to be able to be in dialogue about possibilities. I’m interested in the possibilities for myself to become, but also the possibilities that we all can become as a group. So this intimacy is really what I have always looked for to be a dialogue about art. So I’m really grateful to be here. To be open to everything. I’ve tried to develop a practice of the removal of judgment and just the acceptance of everything. And to understand that certain things at some moments may be more relevant to me, more significant than other things, but it doesn’t mean that what I’m not looking at at that moment is any less important. That everything’s perfect in its own being.
Timothée Verrecchia I find that to be, for me at least, harder and harder because we’re so solicited by constant information, constant opportunities, constant options. How do you find the energy and the focus? We talked about focus and concentration. How is that something that you mentioned yesterday, one of the visits that you did where you were able to be in the present moment, and because of the era we’re in, and again, this constant flow of visual information, intellectual information, informational information, how are you able to focus and concentrate?
Jeff Koons I’ve always enjoyed philosophy, and the American philosopher John Dewey speaks about life experience and the art of experience. But he tries to speak about communication on the most basic level of a single-cell organism being affected by its environment. And its environment that it’s experiencing is transforming it through this experience. And then in return, that single cell organism it’s different. And now it’s affecting its environment. And this communication back and forth. So my basic understanding of life experience is this: internal existence is internal communication with the self, and then that relationship with the external world. And so being open to things, engaged with things, reflecting on things, letting the information come in that you experience in life, or different contextual ways that see things. And that’s the transforming experience. That’s where you continue to become as an individual. That’s what attracts me to my environment and to be open to everything. You know, if I’m looking at something, if I go into a museum, I’m not, or just walking down a street, I’m trying to be open to, you know, the colors that I see, the forms that I see, the situation, the context that something’s in, and to just be open to it completely. And by doing so, it keeps me engaged. It keeps me curious. It keeps me interested. Everything, if people, myself, if I can truly practice that to the fullest level, and I try, but if we do that, everything’s at our disposal, all experience, everything is there in some way for us to use, it’s there to serve us. But if we segregate, if we make judgment, we’re eliminating our possibilities, we’re distancing ourselves from incorporating. These elements, these experiences, these feelings, these symbols from our own communication.
Timothée Verrecchia These are definitely words of wisdom, and in a moment where you know, everything is about judgment, but then again, how do you filter all the information that comes in, because we’ll talk about your process, but I see you again, I’ve seen you engaged with people with places with history. How do you choose and pick, and filter? You know the information you bring back to your process because I see you become like a constant bunch of information.
Jeff Koons I guess that starts to come into some moral range. And when I say that, just from life experience, what you hold dear to your experience, how you view yourself, your experience, your needs with the needs of others, sense of your own possibility, and the needs of the community. I’d like to believe I want more experience, I want stronger sensations, I would like to have more knowledge, I would like to become a better person, a greater being, a better artist. But at the same time, I wanna share how that becoming, if I can experience that, you wanna share that with others. And so I think there’s some part, when I use the word morality, this is how I’m using it, of how you see yourself, your own needs, and the needs of others. I love the balance.
Timothée Verrecchia In terms of sharing, something that you mentioned to me is that this is the time, with the work that you create and the work that you put out in the world, this is a time where you can actually, during your lifetime, really contextualize the work. So I guess this is your experience of sharing. Can you speak to that in terms of how, for an artist with your body of work, contextualizing is important in how you envision this sustaining itself over time?
Jeff Koons I know that I always enjoyed creating narratives, and so if I would be making some works, I would focus on my interests at that time, and I found in life that if you are open to just things that are of interest to you that you find what you’re curious about, and you focus on those things. That it will connect you to a universal vocabulary. You’ll realize the abundance of that information, how you’re just surrounded by it, and you’ll find the interconnections that that information has to the rest of the kind of knowledge, and it connects you to universal vocabulary, so that’s what I’m interested in. That’s the journey. So when I focus on a body of work, it has always taken me to where things will interconnect, and I’ll be creating a vocabulary or revealing, hopefully, a vocabulary that exists within this grouping of objects, of images, information.
“And again, it seems like it’s very specific also to your work in terms of how you use science for its innovation in order to think about the duration and the sustainability of your work over time. You mentioned to me how all the research that you do on materials, for instance, is really about making sure that your works can, again, be outside in the world—be outside in history and interacting with the outside world, with the elements, with people who want to engage with the work. So much of innovation feeds the creative process in the sense that it helps the work live in the world.”
Timothée Verrecchia Great. I want to go back to curiosity, because again, that seems to be like, you know, the greatest quality that I admire in you is, you know, your constant curiosity. And I guess one of the things that you’re most curious about is science in all its forms. You know, we’ve talked about technology, of course. But I would love for you to speak to us about how science has informed your creative practice. You know, we’ve talked about how for most artists, science or, you know, technology the technical aspect of creating works is always kind of the end point. And for you, it seems like this constant conversation between creativity and science, technology, and engineering is just a constant dance almost that continues to evolve. And they both feed off of each other. Can you speak to that for us?
Jeff Koons Timothée, I would imagine what I was saying before about the inside and the outside, that for me the sciences represent that external world and working with that external world and the understanding of that external world and then trying to find that relationship with the internal world or that balance back and forth or that engagement, the unifying aspects of it. I wish that I would have had a different education myself when I was younger within the sciences. I was always intrigued. I know that I made kinds of artistic projects in science, volcanoes that would erupt, or different projects, geysers. But I was into visual arts. But, I was always intrigued by how to use, especially the material sciences, to be a benefit to my work. I started making a series of work called The New. This was back around 1979-1980. And those objects were very committed to external things that existed in the world. They were manufactured objects. And so they were very much kind of confronting our biology, and it’s like, which are really better prepared in a way to survive. And I went on from these crystal pieces of the new to my equilibrium work, which was much more, instead of dealing with ready-made external objects, to dealing more internally with biology. And so my equilibrium works are… Basketballs, just kind of hovering in equilibrium. I wanted permanent equilibrium, but it’s only temporary. It’s a symbol of almost being in the womb. They’re womb-like states. But in that body of work, I started to really reach out to the scientific community. Dr. Richard P. Feynman, the Nobel Prize winner for quantum dynamics. I contacted him, and whenever I would need help, I realized that the resources are there. It’s just about, again, being engaged, being open to the world, being open to the community to speak about how to, you know, exchange information. I saw in a magazine that Feynman was also an artist. He liked making paintings, and he loved art. So I contacted him. But I’ve always been engaged extensively with reaching out, trying to have technology serve and be a tool for my work. I think a lot of artists can make the mistake that, especially in their youth, if they work with the newest technology, their work will be new. It’ll be fresh, and everybody will think it really represents the moment. What represents the movement, what people really want, is something that’s very, very ancient. And it’s at the core of what’s relevant to us as human beings. About being human, about our desires being fulfilled, about having feelings, having sensations, and glorifying these experiences. Of using our biology, feeling our biology. You know, feeling the blood pump through us. People are seeking something very ancient, that’s what’s new. To have those experiences that are fresh to us about “This is life”.
Timothée Verrecchia And again, it seems like it’s very specific also to your work in terms of how you use science for its innovation, in order to think about the duration and the sustainability of your work over time. You mentioned to me how all the research that you do on materials, for instance, is really about making sure that your works can, again, be outside in the world and be outside in history and be interacting with the outside world, with the elements, with people who want to interact with the work. So much of, again, innovation feeds the creative process in the sense that it’s due to help the work live in the world.
Jeff Koons Yes, and so, and it has to do with a dialogue, kind of a responsibility. We were speaking earlier a little bit just because of our interest in life about Steve Jobs. And I always enjoyed. I never met Steve Jobs, but I’ve always enjoyed his philosophy of objects and of caring. And Walter Isaacson in the biography on Steve Jobs speaks about one moment when Steve is in the backyard with his father, and his dad is telling him that they’re going to paint this fence in the backyard, and his father explains to Steve that it’s important to paint both sides of the fence. You know, not just the side that they’re gonna be looking at from their home, but for the other side that the neighbor is gonna see. And this type of caring, I mean, I try to tell my children, and Justine, I try to communicate that, you know, forget about esthetics, forget about everything. The most important thing is to care. And if you care about something, everything else comes along. I mean, the concept of esthetics just comes through caring. A sense of morality comes through carrying. Everything is based on just caring, being thoughtful about something. Whether you are preserving something or destroying something, whether you’re serving or not serving. But I think caring is really relevant. I try to practice within my work, within the use of technology. I understand that everything goes to dust, okay? Everything ends up decayed, it falls apart, even the most kind of durable of materials, but that still gives us an opportunity to try to care. It’s this idea about whether you can affect one person’s life, if you could be generous in some manner, just to one individual. It’s the same within the arts of trying to create something that, in some manner, can communicate to somebody that you can be of service to, that you can serve, that you can be generous, and you can have, in a way, a shared human experience.
Timothée Verrecchia Because so much of the process is, again, about this dance between creativity and innovation. And I’ve been privy to seeing some of the way that you work in your studio. When does this process end? When do you know that the conversation has come to an end? That constant dance between creativity and innovation, you know, because obviously it’s related to care, and because you work with resources, you know, you work over timelines that are very extended, you know, they’re very much your own. You’ve mentioned, you know, processes that have taken up to nine years, you know, to create works and to put them out into the world, if not longer, of course.
Jeff Koons I have to smile because I like that, if not longer. Some of the works have been 25 years. My Play-Doh took 25, but…
Timothée Verrecchia When do you know? What does that feel like? What does that intuition feel like?
Jeff Koons I believe that things should flow much faster than that. I think 25 years is far too long. I think any time is far too long because you can have the idea of something, you can envision something, but the time of bringing it into reality, bringing it to an existence, you need to have something give off more energy that’s put into something. It’s just that being embedded in something is a positive thing. So I really don’t believe in laboring over things, but sometimes it takes a longer period of time to achieve something than I would like. I strive for the path of least resistance, but at the same time, I have this commitment to, there’s one shot at this, because I really would like to try to deal with kind of vertical developments instead of horizontal and to move on to the next ideas, the next area. So I would like things to go more quickly. So I try to use technology to help me. I generally am a very intuitive artist. It comes from thinking about things. I’m just really curious about this, and focusing on it before I know it, it’s taken me to a certain area of interest. So it’s not like, oh, I’m interested in technology, so I wanna exploit that aspect of that technology. Much more intuitive, but trying to bring about and try to amplify that vision as much as possible, and to generate it and empower it as much as possible.
Timothée Verrecchia Can you speak a little bit more about what you mean by vertical development processes versus horizontal?
Jeff Koons Horizontal would be a constant repetition of something. I’m an artist, I make sculptures, I made paintings, but it would be as if I was making a series of paintings that I’m making the same paintings over and over again. Can make a little mild variation of it, but that’s basically what I’m dealing with: this one idea. I myself prefer to explore different areas. My idea of becoming, I guess, I feel like I have a lot of territory to make up. And that’s what, you know, we love very much being here in Istanbul. And I went to the National Museum of Archeology, and I’ve been there before, I’ve looked at the collection before. But just looking at the collection yesterday, I felt like; Oh my gosh, what? You know, the civilization we live in at this moment, or how I’ve not taken advantage, how I haven’t taken advantage to absorb all the opportunities of beauty in the world. It’s just overwhelming, all the beauty, all the information we have. I mean, how many lifetimes that you need to experience it? And so at the same time, viewing. Wonderful to see and recognize that beauty, but also feeling the loss of the lost opportunity to be engaged with that beauty even more completely within my life.
Timothée Verrecchia Wonderful. I mean, so much of the work that you do also has to do with, you know, bending certain dimensions; scale, time, history. And again, going back to the innovation processes, you mentioned to me some of the research that you did for the work you’re sending to the Moon. Can you speak to that for us a little bit?
Jeff Koons I sent work to the moon, and I guess it went about a year and nine months, a year and 10 months ago. And so my son, Sean, who went to the University of Chicago, met somebody there, and they said, Please, you know, show this project to your father. So Sean brought this to me. And at first I thought, Oh, you know, I don’t know if this is going to be reliable, but I looked into it. This was an opportunity to work with SpaceX and work with a company, Intuitive Machines, that had the largest payload was NASA for the project. So I decided to participate. And as far as working with technology and engineering, this was a wonderful opportunity because I had to be able to design something. That would go from the Earth to the Moon, be able to absorb all those forces, be on the outside of the lander after leaving Earth’s orbit, and then finally to the Moon’s surface, to withstand all the vibrations, all the temperature changes on the moon. The temperature changes over 400 degrees between being in the sunlight being into the shadow, and to create something that 200 years from now, and again, space tourism is going to be a lot sooner than that, but we usually look at things as 200 years, that it will look like it does today, that the type of polycarbonate that we’ve worked with and all the coloring systems and working with lasers and heat treatment and the stainless deal of different parts of this. That everything will be as it is today. And it made it in perfect condition.
Timothée Verrecchia Wonderful. So I’d love to end our conversation about going back to the theme of the festival: What is really real? One conversation we had was about seeing things pass. You mentioned that everything goes to dust, everything decays. And although we’re constantly either in denial or battling that notion. Um, I’d love to think about what that means in terms of this team, you know, uh, knowing what we know, knowing that things decay, and you mentioned this experience that you had in New York City recently, you know, going past, you know, a chapter of your life that had kind of disappeared. What is it that represents reality on a day-to-day basis? I mean, what do you think really is real?
“I think the interaction with oneself and with the environment. […] It’s just the elements, it’s these chemicals interacting, and one is affecting another and that’s creating a certain sensation. My fingertips are tingling. It’s just a chemical chain reaction, but it’s the animation of it.”
Jeff Koons I think, the interaction with oneself and with the environment. I was at Nobel Laureate Week in 2014, and I met Eric Betzig, and Eric had previously won the Nobel Prize for chemistry. And I was having a conversation with Eric, and he said, “you know, life is just a chemical, animated chain reaction.” And that was the first time I ever came across this concept of the definition of life. And I thought, that’s beautiful. That’s, you know that’s what it is. And that’s what I stay very focused on. It’s just the elements, it’s these chemicals interacting, and one is affecting another, and that’s creating a certain sensation. My fingertips are tingling. It’s just a chemical chain reaction, but it’s the animation of it. It’s one chemical reaction against another that gives this animation that this is life, but this is who we are. And this is how we have feelings, we have sensations, and we have this interaction with the world. So I like to think about trying to keep those chain reactions flowing, celebrate them, and enjoy them. I think that there is a difference, you know, there’s a large communication about AI, and AI is amazing. I mean, I’m so appreciative of all the information that comes. And there’s a big dialogue about it, but AI doesn’t have the ability at this time to fear death or to experience joy. It can feed words, it can feed the simulations of, but it doesn’t know those feelings. And we know those feelings. And I hope that we can learn to even experience our senses on a higher level. And in a way, we feel challenged by it to do that, to define what this biological experience is.
Timothée Verrecchia Wonderful. Thank you so much, Jeff. Thank you.
Jeff Koons Thank you, Timothée.
This transcript is from the IST.FESTIVAL Day I panel talk held on October 11, 2025, at Istanbul Modern, featuring Jeff Koons and Timothée Verrecchia.